Oleksandra Matviichuk: "We live in the illusion that we have an international order."

Oleksandra Matviichuk, a renowned human rights defender and Nobel Peace Prize laureate, shared her insights in an exclusive interview for readers of Business Woman magazine. She spoke about the current state of international law and human rights, emphasizing how the Nobel Prize has amplified the voices of human rights advocates from Canada on the global stage. Oleksandra also highlighted the importance of speaking the truth about the crimes committed by Russia in Chechnya, Georgia, Syria, and Ukraine. Read more in the article.

What does the Nobel Prize mean to you? First and foremost, it is a great responsibility. For decades, the voices of human rights defenders from our part of the world were not heard. We talked about how Russia was destroying its own civil society - killing journalists, imprisoning activists, dispersing peaceful demonstrations. Russian troops committed horrific crimes in Chechnya, Georgia, Syria, Mali, and Libya. But the civilized world turned a blind eye to this. And Putin believed that he could do anything. The Nobel Peace Prize made the voices of human rights defenders from our part of the world visible.

How do you assess the current state of human rights in Ukraine and in the world in general? The international system of peace and security does not work. We live in the illusion that we have an international order. This has long been obvious to people in Somalia, Sudan, Syria, to the victims of dictatorship in Belarus, and now to people in Ukraine. And since the world's attention is now focused on Ukraine, it is becoming obvious to people in developed democracies as well.

Their rights and security depend not on the UN, but on whether they live in a country with a powerful military potential, whether there is oil and gas in their country, and therefore other countries turn a blind eye to what the authorities do to people in this country. I am for a radical reform of the international system of peace and security; otherwise, the world will move in a dangerous direction.

Ukraine is an example that people who fight for their freedom are stronger than the second army in the world. When both the West and Putin were convinced that Kyiv would fall in 3-4 days, when international organizations evacuated their personnel, it turned out that ordinary Ukrainians took responsibility upon themselves. Ordinary people made their way to besieged cities with humanitarian aid, saved others under artillery fire, and evacuated the population without any green corridors. Ordinary people do extraordinary things, and it was they who managed to change the course of history faster than the intervention of the United Nations.

In your opinion, what are the main challenges faced by human rights defenders today, and have they changed with the start of Russia's full-scale invasion of Ukrainian lands? After the full-scale invasion, we faced an unprecedented number of war crimes. Russian troops destroy residential buildings, churches, museums, schools, and hospitals. They shoot evacuation corridors. They torture people in filtration camps. They forcibly take Ukrainian children to Russia. They destroy the energy infrastructure to leave millions of people without heat and light in winter. They kidnap, rob, rape, and kill in the occupied territories. In our joint initiative "Tribunal for Putin," we have documented more than 75,000 episodes.

Russia deliberately commits these war crimes. Russia wants to break the resistance and occupy the country by inflicting unimaginable pain on the civilian population. Russia uses pain as an instrument. So we document not just violations of the Geneva or Hague Conventions. We document human pain. And this is the biggest challenge because it is impossible to remain emotionless to this pain.

How can human rights defenders interact with governments and international organizations to improve the situation? 

The challenges we face cannot be solved within national borders. We need the support of the international community. Therefore, I am now visiting different countries and meeting with presidents, members of governments, and parliamentarians, building joint work with representatives of civil society, diasporas, and businesses. It is important to communicate the country externally and explain what we are fighting for.

What role do you think youth can play in the fight for human rights? Do you see modern youth as a completely new generation in defending human rights compared to the times when you started? 

I often speak at various universities around the world, talking about Ukraine and the phenomenon of freedom. After all, young people in free countries inherited this freedom from their parents. They have never fought for it, so they do not understand its value. They have become consumers of freedom and understand it as the ability to choose between several types of cheese in the refrigerator. But the truth is that freedom is very fragile. And we make our choice every day. The values of freedom need to be protected.

I also advise young people to get out of their own bubble more often and listen to those with whom they fundamentally disagree. People, especially during war or other upheavals, become too categorical, often seeing only black and white. They hit those they can reach and easily write off people and entire groups with different views. But we do not have the luxury of treating each other this way, especially in times when the whole world has entered a period of turbulence. We need to be able to build bridges between groups with different experiences, different visions, and different emotional reactions. Only then can we build a safe and democratic world.

What human rights projects or initiatives have impressed you the most in recent years? 

The first thing that comes to mind is the Euromaidan SOS initiative. We united several thousand people in response to the dispersal of a peaceful student demonstration by Yanukovych's pro-Russian government. We worked 24 hours a day to provide legal and other assistance to persecuted protesters across the country - people who were beaten, tortured, arrested, accused in fabricated criminal cases. During the Revolution of Dignity, people understood that they could be beaten, thrown into prison, and ultimately killed, but there are Euromaidan SOS volunteers, and they will fight honestly for you and will not leave your family. And this understanding gave strength to overcome fear.

Where did your team turn regarding the crimes of the Russian Federation? 

All the information we collected about the crimes committed by Russian soldiers is passed on to the International Criminal Court, to various thematic and geographical mandates of the UN, the conventional institutions of the Council of Europe, and the OSCE. We also share information with national investigation bodies. We want the collected evidence not to remain in the archive because we record crimes to achieve justice for the affected people and to ensure that their perpetrators are punished.

How do you respond to accusations or criticism that a human rights defender may receive for their activities? Especially the public reaction to the news that the Nobel Prize was awarded to a representative of Russia and Belarus at the same time? 

We shared this prize with our friends and colleagues from Memorial and Viasna. And I always use such questions as an opportunity to explain why this caused such a stormy reaction in part of Ukrainian society. When people see Ukraine, Russia, and Belarus in the same row, there can be no other reaction. Not only because Russia and Belarus are aggressor countries. But also because for decades, the myth of fraternal peoples was imposed in the Soviet Union. But everyone knew that this was a huge lie, and there were no fraternal peoples. There is one people that dominates - its language, its culture. And such a combination automatically triggers this association.

But it is important to understand that the Nobel Peace Prize is awarded not to countries but to people. To people who defend human rights and have worked together for many years. For all these 10 years, we have closely worked with Memorial, which always called the war a war, said that the occupation of Crimea was a crime, and helped us fight for the release of Ukrainian political prisoners. This is a prize for people who jointly fight against the common evil that is trying to establish itself in our part of the world again.

What prospects do you see for future work in the field of human rights? How exactly should one influence politics and society while defending human rights, not just in Ukraine? 

According to Freedom House, the vast majority of the world's population lives in non-free countries. Freedom is becoming a luxury. Ultimately, this war of Russia against Ukraine is not a war between two countries but a war between two systems: authoritarianism and democracy. In recent decades, the rollback of democracy has occurred in many parts of the world.

Therefore, the world needs Ukraine's victory, including to send a powerful signal to people in other parts of the world to continue the fight for freedom and human dignity. Modern examples are needed that when you fight for freedom, you can achieve results.

What methods of self-preservation do you use to maintain energy and emotional well-being in the process of working as a human rights defender? Have there been moments of despair and thoughts that you would not be able to change anything in this big mechanism that has been working the same way for 100 years before you? What gave you the strength to deal with them and move on? 

I know for sure that all our efforts make sense. The future is not guaranteed, but it is not predetermined either. So we certainly have a chance to create the future we want for ourselves and our children with our actions. And I also want to see Putin in The Hague. And I visualize it. How I will wear my best dress, red lipstick, and come to court as a winner. Dictators are usually great cowards, and after losing power, they look pathetic. And I want to see the debunking of yet another cult.

I am inspired by people. Ordinary people who do extraordinary things. Turbulent times always reveal true people. They do not consider themselves heroes but just continue to do their job. But it is on such people that everything rests.

What would you advise other women who dream of working in the field of human rights but may doubt their ability to cope with it? 

I am often asked about the role of women during Russia's full-scale invasion. And I get lost on how to respond. I know many fantastic women in various fields. Women make state decisions, women fight in the Armed Forces of Ukraine, women coordinate volunteer initiatives, women document war crimes. Women are at the forefront of our struggle for freedom. Because courage has no gender. 

It is difficult for me to answer for one simple reason. Because a woman can perform any role she wants. All possible roles belong to her. And if a woman is ready to try herself in the field of human rights, she will definitely find other women on this path who will be ready to support her.